Q&A: Should cellphone price-checking be banned at book sales?
QUESTION: I just learned that one of the biggest Friends of the Library sales in the country, the Gainesville FOL sale, has banned the use of "scanning devices." Is this a good idea, and is it getting to be common?ANSWER: I haven't run into this personally, but I'm hearing about it more and more -- price-checking being banned at book sales.
Back when I started selling some six years ago, there was no such thing as ScoutPal. You just had to go with your gut, and learn to pick books by experience. I've always bought a ton of books whenever I'm at a library sale. (I infrequently use cellphone price checking at big sales because it slows down how fast I can grab books. On the other hand, I don't have a scanner, I have to key in the ISBN. Maybe if I had a scanner I'd check prices more often.)
So I have mixed feelings about this. Even before there was such a thing as cellphone price-checking, I remember getting lots of dirty looks from FOL volunteers, simply because I was buying lots of books.
Why would people get mad at you for buying lots of books at a book sale? Three reasons, I guess --
- It creates more work for the FOL volunteer who has to total your bill and box up books.
- Some people resent it when they realize you're buying books to make a profit.
- Aggressive book dealers can make it harder for "regular" book sale attendees to find good books.
I guess from the point of view of the FOL volunteers, "dealers" can keep the rest of the public from finding good books at sales -- and that scanners have made that problem much worse. And that cellphone and PDA price-checking have made it so much easier to identify "dealers."
I'm sure we've all seen example of the rudest behavior on the part of book dealers who knock people over grabbing books, block off big stacks of books, scan them, then leave piles of books unsorted. Those few bad apples are the reason scanners are getting banned from more and more sales. That's too bad.
I'm curious if other people have run into this also.
Labels: library sales, technology
posted by Steve Weber at 3/14/2007
22 Comments:
A no cell phones rule is now in effect at Albuquerque public library book sales. It's very hard to actually enforce this rule and I see a lot of cheating, but there have already been some confrontations between the book sales staff and the book scouts. I expect that this will eventually be accepted as part of the book sale culture. I actually think that other changes that the sale organizers have made have have done more to improve the sale- the cell phone use is just part of a wider syndrome of bad behavior.
There are a lot of jerks that make a mess of this sale by scooping up tables of books and then sorting them. With cell phones and scanners they were holding on the stock for even longer before leaving it in random piles around the room.
This sale also has a rule that once you've filled a bag you've got to buy those books. A nice book sale volunteer will take the books to be totaled and you can pay on your way out. That rule has been pretty effective at stopping the "I've got dibs on all these books and I'll decide later in the day how many I actually want" behavior.
An even better change that they sale organizers have made is to raise the prices. The dealers are less likely to walk off with an entire table of books when the books are priced at $1.00 to $2.00 than when the books were priced at $0.50. Even at the higher prices, people who are buying books to read can easily afford to buy all they want. Furthermore, the sale makes more money this way. Some books are overpriced, but they do reprice things that have gone unsold for a couple of months. They also offer "bag a buck" sales a couple of times a year to clean out the junk.
I've been to the really big sales like the one in Des Moines, Iowa where using a scanner is not a problem because there are so many books (300,000+) that there are enough books for everyone. At that sale, no one is allowed to stash piles of books to look through afterwards. Instead, there is a holding room for the books you chose. You fill a box, check it in, receive a number, and as you shop for more books a volunteer tallies up the total. The books are considered sold if you check them in. You keep dropping off bags or boxes of books in the holding area until your are ready to pay. If books are left anywhere in the buying area they are immediately picked up by the volunteers and placed back on the tables. At that particular sale, there are hundreds of people with scanners and cell phone price checkers. It seems to work fine because there is plenty of space in which to move around and plenty of books. Everyone seems to leave happy.
I've also been to the small sales. It is a problem at these sales, I feel, mostly because of a lack of space and the small number of books. The problem is that there are people who camp in one area and scan every book thereby not allowing others to view the books in that particular area of the table. And with more and more people scanning, the problem compounds until whole tables are fenced in by groups of scanners who don't budge until every single book is checked (the good stuff and the crummy stuff - 'cause they just can't tell the difference without the scanner!!). At these smaller sales, it's just hard to get at the books when people monopolize the tables/shelves. This, of course, is annoying.
I personally think more library sales will ban the use of electronic book finders because traditional sale goers do complain about overly aggressive scouts. But realistically, I just can't imagine some old blue haired women physically kicking someone out for scanning books!!
But Steve is absolutely right. It is best to use your own judgment while attending library sales. You can pick books a lot faster not tied down to any technology. And, with books priced at a dollar or so you can afford to make mistakes. The winners will outweigh the losers - and if not - you will have learned something.
In a way, it's too bad so many people use scanners because as Matthew Budman puts it in his "Collecting Books": [a scanner] relegates the scout to the role of unskilled labor, scanning bar codes and staring at tiny LCD screens."
pete
Minnesota
It was my understanding the the Gainesville group, like many of the Florida Friends groups, now consign higher priced items to BETTER WORLD BOOKS, who make the recommedation that the FOL sales do not allow scanners. So gut or not gut, when the best is skimmed year long by a consignment business, we can get smarter and use alternate sources. Better World is doing a great job of funding themselves year round with 100's of library systems now.
Yes, I have been at FOL sales where devices were banned. I was at another small sale where one gal had a scanner and she wasn't hard to work around. She barely took the book off the shelf to scan it. The problem is where they hoard the books into a corner, sit and scan them and leave the discards in a pile to be restacked. And I too have been asked "why are you buying so many books?" I never try to imply that I'm going to take these home and list them and make money on them as I don't want the FOL to feel bad. More and more sales tho have had a dealer in first to cull the real cream.
The booksales I attend here in Texas either love people with scanners and cell phones or tolerate us. The goal, after all, is to sell out all the books, and I do my part by buying as many as I can. I do try to be courteous and put things back generally where I found them, but I do get a little messy now and then. I think it is rudeness and hoarding that they dislike at most sales.
The only place I have ever been asked to leave or where an employee has ever confronted me was a large store in an old mall that sells remainders. He said he was prohibited from selling to dealers by the publishers from which he buys. Then, he said it was fine if I went ahead and purchased the cart full of books I had already chosen (not wanting to miss a sale). In that case, I was guilty of being greedy. I took too much and was too obvious about it. A few smaller batches might have been overlooked by the manager. By the way, I still visit the store now and then, and it is heavily scouted by other sellers!
I was recently at a huge book sale and one certain woman I swear followed me everywhere and constantly reached in front of me to scan a book, no excuse me, no nothing. I thought it was very rude. Although I was there to buy books too for profit I feel these people need to find some manners first. I'm a small time seller and do understand some of these people fo this full time and that is their livelihood but come on. So I'm torn on the debate, but isn't half the fun looking and finding and hoping you get a gem????
I was at a large sale recently (600,000+) and they had an extra room for sorting. You could take a cart back there, scan all you want, they had discard carts there and the volunteers rushed them back to the floor. Guess what? They sold a lot of books!!! Instead of hindering the dealer, they realised the new culture and was prepared to handle it. With so many books, there was PLENTY for everyone. Dealers and readers a like! I don't think this would work at a small sale, however....
I think the biggest problem is hoarding. But if you are tired of people using cell phones at sales (though this solution is most likely of a dubious legal nature) why don't you just buy a cell phone jammer from eBay or one of the many online vendors and stop the phone users in their tracks??
Ahh, to scan, or not to scan? I've chosen not to scan, because it would mske me feel like a book whore. My belief is: I am a bookseller, and as such, the knowledge of books is my business.
I just started going to FOL sales in 2006, and frankly, felt embarrassed about my colleagues. I rarely even get to a sale on time, because I find the "vulture" climate so uncomfortable.
All that being said, I do carry a PDA, and at the end of my two hours of hunting, I generally check the prices of about 10-12 of them. I simply don't have the space to store deadwood.
Two things I've seen seem to work: consider it sold when it goes into a box/bag, or make a 10 book rule. One can only buy 10 books at a time during the first hour. You can go back for more after you purchase and store the 10. This had the effect that people weren't frantically grabbing, and it gave the regualr readers an opportunity to get more of the better books.
I don't have any plans to get a scanner, though I do a small amount of price checking. I have seen many great books being passed by these folks, because all they focus on are the barcodes and numbers on their scanners. I guess that's why I don't like them. I don't want to become a slave to the bottom dollar, and besides, it takes a lot of the excitement out of the enterprise. It's like knowing if you have a boy or a girl before the birth.
Book sellers must realize who they are dealing with at local libraries -- government workers. And, we all know that most government workers don't know the first thing about actually making a PROFIT. Several months ago, at the local Santa Monica, CA, library I made the mistake of admitting to the lady on duty that I was indeed a book dealer. She told me that she thought it was "disgusting" that I was buying books and re-selling them for higher prices. When I informed her that this was how capitalism functions, she told me that the books belonged to the community. I sarcastically responded with what community? The People's Socialist Community?
In actuality, scanners are a waste of money. I've found that the valuable stuff doesn't have an ISBN number or the ISBN number is only on the title page. The secret to this business is to find a special niche. Don't be one of the thousands of gazelles grazing at the water hole with your scanner.
I've always thought before that I got treated rudely by some vounteers at times at booksales because I'm a female book dealer I've noticed if my husband, who also sells books in a different category than myself, goes with me, I get much better treatment.
So it was a surprise to find out here that so many booksellers, male and female, get that "it's disgusting to sell books for a profit," point of view. I've never understood that point of view myself. The books are for sale and the more dealers they have buying, the more money the library or charity organization makes.
I don't use a scanner myself, mainly because I'm a goofball when it comes to technology and don't understand the most basic of these tools, but mainly because I like the older children's volumes and they rarely have an ISBN, so a scanner would be a waste of time and money for me. I like going by the experience and that gut instinct. I make a lot of mistakes, less than I used to these days, but the "good finds" usually outweigh those in the long run.
Still, I've never understood that hostility of book sale volunteers, or other patrons, when someone buys a lot of books at a sale. Isn't that the whole idea, to make money from the sale? And the other patrons who are readers at large sales have as much opportunity to buy the books as the dealers do.
The only time I don't buy a lot of books if it is at a small sale and there is a limited number in any category...say children's books are a quarter each and there aren't that many. I don't buy those then. I leave those for the kids who might want to buy the books. But that's just me, what others do is entirely up to them and they have the right to choose how they buy books.
I have seen some of the people with scanners at book sales now and again. Sometimes they're rude, and sometimes they hoard books, but they're usually at huge book sales where there are plenty of books for everyone. The hoarding books isn't a fair element and makes it look bad for all of us, but sounds like people are taking steps now to avoid that problem.
My view is if you choose a book, buy it. But that doesn't stop a lot of the hostility of book sale workers who think you shouldn't make money off of books. It may be that volunteers and others actually think you make worlds of money from every purchase, when almost every dealer buys "throw backs," books they just have to give away, sometimes to the same library that sold it, or to churches or other charity organizations, because they guessed wrong on the book's value.
Yet, some volunteers seem to think you're somehow making tons of money on every book you buy and that's somehow, at least in their minds, not fair for some unknown reason. Don't ask me why.
Even if you were making a mint on every purchase, which has never happened to me anyway, if you bought the books at the price they put on the goods at the sale, how is that a problem? Nobody cares if Wal-Mart buys cheaper goods overseas and ups the price here. That's how capitalism works. And it's been working very well for a very long time.
So what's the problem with selling books for a profit? Let's face it, without dealers at book sales the organization in question is sure to make much less profit. So I just don't get that hostile attitude that occurs sometimes toward someone who buys a lot of books. Guess I never will.
This is a very interesting subject that obviously generates a lot of controversy & hostility.
I started selling books online a few months ago and within those few months I've noticed the hostility that some people have towards booksellers. And, so far, in my area, I haven't seen or heard complaints about rude scanner-users.
After thinking it over I've decided that at least one of the reasons for hostility toward booksellers is this - people don't like to feel that some one else is profiting from their ignorance. That's not too hard to figure out. So why the hostility? Because it feels like someone is trying to pull a "fast-one". They feel cheated. And, since "everyday" people are getting in on bookselling, instead of aloof, distant corporate book houses, there's probably also an element of jealousy, or a "What makes them better than me?" feeling.
Of course, a little thinking would reveal that the reason they're charging so little is that they don't want to take the time or can't afford to find out what each book may be worth. They have a huge inventory that they can't afford to hold on to for the maximum price. All of this causes them to act as wholesalers. As booksellers, we understand this concept, since we're acting like retailers, but many of them do not.
At any rate, in my opinion, the use of scanners has brought the subject out in the open and will, in all probability, speed the day that book-sales-people will use automated systems for themselves.
In the meantime, I think we should expect that many sales will ban scanners......and then, eventually, advances in technology will change everything and, in a short period of time, personal scanners will probably become obsolete.
Until then, if you're a scanner-user, please remember that other people are watching you - especially because of your electronic gadget - and noting your behavior and that it impacts all of us.
I have to say, to the poster who mentioned cell phone jammers: You'd have the FCC down on you like a ton of bricks if you got caught. Also, the most effective scanner users are running off of PDAs with local databases, not cell phones.
As a full-time bookseller, I get so tired of the comments that are apologetic almost about being a bookseller and using technology. This is a very competitive business. Being profitable are what businesses survive and thrive on using their brains and the tools available.
If a booksale disallowed scanners I would simply not go to it. My time is too valuable. These library sales are making a HUGE profit off of booksellers, and they realize this fact. On top of that, they charge ever higher entrance fees and many are starting to sell their best books online. The Gainesville sale is just responding to complaints from small time buyers. I would imagine that they will modify their policy within a couple of years when they realize annual sales have dropped. As far as scanners, there needs to be a clarification between cell phones and scanners. Cell phones are the ones that are hoarding books in a corner, and that should simply be unacceptable. I have been to a sale where the cell phones were blocked. It makes sense to me. Explain that someone can go outside if they want to make a call or check their cell phone. It would stop the hoarding behavior promptly.
I think the issue is not the actuall scanners but the attitude it brings. I have personally witnessed a fist fight between two dears over a book.
I have also seen a person in a wheelchair being pushed out of the way by a dealer. Iv'e also seen dealers telling senior citizens to *F* off when they ask a dealer a question.
I'm actually in favor of banning all scanner/cellphone devices for a number of reasons.
If less dealers can use scanners, then it will push more out of buisness. The more out of buisness, then the less competition I will have online.
I don't quite understand the sentiment that price checking takes the fun out of bookselling. It's not much fun to get home and realize that your best instincts about what would sell are completely incorrect, and your items are worthless. It's not much fun to then figure out what the heck to do with the books, either. I can appreciate that scanning takes some of the spontaneity out of bookselling, though. I do allow myself a small amount of money to just go ahead and risk, but for the most part price checking is now essential if you want to make a profit on as many items as possible.
As far as a ban on scanning at sales and the fact that scanners leave piles of books in corners, it's really no different than a person grabbing a bunch of stuff out of initial interest and then doing a more detailed sort in the corner. People doing this leave stuff in the corners too...
I don't think scanning should be banned, but of course the more you can use the scanner without being messy about it, the better. Being respectful and putting books back where you found them is always the best thing, whether you are scanning or not.
It's not the price scanner killing book sales, it's the people who pull the trigger.
That said, the manager of the book sale makes the rules, has the final say and that's life.
If the manager doesn't want to be bothered getting rid of the few bad apples and just ban scanners before the sale, that's his/her right. However, I still guarantee there will still be those few rude people.
A book sale manager wants the sale to be pleasant and polite. All it takes is one aggressive jerk with a scanner to prejudice him/her against the whole lot of us.
I use a price checker. I love it! It's like playing a slot machine everytime I enter an ISBN. I have never been harassed for using one. Perhaps this is bacause I always polite. I smile, take time to chat people and enjoy the sale. If a regualar shopper wants a book I have, I will almost always give it to them.
Scanners should be allowed, bad bahavior and the people who are consistently are rude should be banned. Getting rid of scanners is simply treating a symptom, not the whole problem.
I always use a scanner at local book sales. At the same time, I try to be the most polite person in the room. Never reach in front of someone else. Don't block the aisles. "Please", "Thanks", "Excuse me" accompanied by a smile will provide dealers with a much better reputation. Most of the dealers in our area are like this, and there have been no complaints or bans.
I was at a FOL sale this past weekend where some dealer who flew in from another state took her scanner in and was scanning *every* book in the aisle to pick out the ones she could sell. She had her box positioned at the side of the table and was greedily scanning about a book per second and rapidly tossing the ones she wanted into the box.
She literally had half a wardrobe box full of books before I'd even picked up one. These people need to be stopped, and if it means banning scanners from booksales, so be it. This kind of behavior will ultimately kill the sales for anyone other than the hardcore book dealers.
I've been selling on Amazon for about 6 months now, and I've had a lot of frustrating experiences at book sales. I don't have a scanner or use a cell phone while buying books, and I've run into many very rude people with scanners who hoard all the books, then throw them back and actually damage them in the process. At an outlet I go to there are regular book scouts who have hired a crew of "helpers" with cell phones who set aside huge carts of books then sit with them for hours, scanning them and throwing them back against the wall. These employees are Hispanic and apparently speak no English. Many of their discards have no ISBNS, but I pick them up on a hunch and make money off them--they are often the rarest and best of the bunch.Unfortunately I have seen this crew shove children and the elderly aside, grabbing books from underneath others' noses--even out of other people's stacks. I am always polite and considerate of those around me when buying, but I'm certain that the "hoarders" are giving the rest of us a bad reputation.
So someone buying all the books before you get a chance "needs to be stopped"? Why? What right do you have to those books? Are you paying more? Were you there first? Are you a generally better and more deserving person?
Rudeness should be stopped. But just because someone got there before you, got a box, and filled it with books, does not give you the right to determine that person has no right to be there.
Get over yourself and look at this as a business. Geez.
I observed a scanmonster aggressively try to bully an elderly library volunteer into selling a valuable book for a dollar that had been shelved in an off limits area NEAR the $1.00 books. If he's there tomorrow, I'm going to step on his toe. And I'm fat. So it will hurt.
And yes, this may be a business, but FOL's are generally CHARITIES and whatever rules they want to set to maintain a pleasant atmosphere, IMO, they are entitled to. Volunteers give time out of their belief in libraries, books, knowledge and the future of their towns. It's not a cattle auction, or the floor of the Board of Trade.
(Fortunately, a library staffer quickly got between this guy and his victim. The obnoxious thing really was that if he'd made her a decent offer, she'd probably have sold him the book. It was only valued $70 - not biggest score. In the time it took him to argue with staffer, I picked up $60 worth of books, and left with my conscience intact.)
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